"Driven from every other corner of the earth, Freedom of Thought and The Right of Private Judgement in matters of conscience direct their course to this happy country as their last asylum." Samuel Adams - 1776
aka Civil Unions for all!
Published on May 19, 2009 By Korwyn In Marriage

I see in this whole debate a fundamentally flawed assumption that few seem to be willing to address. This assumption is (I believe) actually the core problem and there is a simple solution – which means that it will probably never get addressed. Granted the solution isn’t without its own flaws, but it is probably better than the morass of laws and lawsuits we are heading into right now.

Flawed assumption: Marriage is a civil function. It isn’t. Marriage is a religious institution.

The whole thing boils down to the mixing of the civil (for want of a better term) “joining of households”, and the religious marriage contract. This context of this is inherited long before the Christian church, and can be traced back to almost every culture’s early religious movements. Look at the cultural surroundings of Druidism, Greek Pantheon, Pharaohic rule, Divine Imperial rule in the ‘Far East’, Semitic  Abramic tradition, Mayan, Aztecan, etc, and you will find that the priest(esses) - or those serving in the religious hierarchy – performed both civil and religious law, and it wasn’t until some of the Grecian and Roman legalists and sophists came along that there was this idea of separation between civil law and religious mores and traditions.

Judges and magistrates already perform the civil function of ‘joining of households’. Religious functionaries should not be performing a function of civil or common law.

The solution to the issue is fairly simple (on the surface) and could fix the problem once and for all. When two or more consenting legal adults want to join their households into a single entity they receive a Household Tax ID IF THEY SO CHOOSE. If they don’t choose, they remain (for taxation and civil law) two separate individuals. Religious marriage doesn’t enter into it at all. If two or five consenting legal  adults want to enter into a relationship sanctioned by their church or religion or whatever, that has NO BEARING or relevance on the civil side. 

Tax filings stay pretty much the same, except that instead of a place for two people on the tax forms, there is a ‘household tax id’ number. That links to the civil household registry of who is part of that household, which ties in the individually issued W-2 and various other tax forms. Each party in the household signs off on the tax return, and voila.

Medical benefits and retirements work similarly as they do now, with the exception that if you pay for each adult dependent at the same rate you currently do the ‘spouse’ or ‘domestic partner’ – if they are part of the household (joined under a Household Tax ID). So if Jennifer is the primary or largest wage earner, and has the best medical coverage, and she wants to list Janet, Sandy, and Bill (who are all part of the household),  she pays for herself, plus 3 adults.

This also allows for platonic households, or sibling households (for tax and legal benefits), etc. The key to remember is that in the event of a dissolution of the household, the same issues apply as do under current marriage contracts. Who gets what, who pays what, who gets the kids, who pays child support, who gets the tax deduction, etc.

I know I'll probably get eaten alive by rabid wolverines from the fringes of both sides, but anyone have any additional thoughts, analysis, or comments?

 


Comments (Page 2)
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on May 21, 2009

(And who says Adam and Eve were married?)

 

Good point; Haha, that would be...cruelly ironic. 

 

Well partly because I'm not sure that your first statement is true but I haven't chewed it over enough to make an argument yet. It makes some basic assumptions about rights that are really fundamentally sociological/cultural issues as opposed to rights. After all what is a 'right'

 

Well...Natural right - That which is not contingent upon law; i.e. life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. All three ideals just are, even without the law.

 

Well, when you finish chewing it over, I would like to hear what you have to say about it.

 

on May 21, 2009

Sure thing...upon examining the history of Marriage and the Family founded upon it

It doesn't surprise me that when you "examined the history" you found the opposite of what I found.

What would surprise me is if you were able to backup your claim with some sort of evidence.

(And who says Adam and Eve were married?)

God says so and the evidence to back up that claim comes from God's own word in Genesis 2....God should know cause He was there. and infinitely so.....................

 

on May 21, 2009

God says so and the evidence to back up that claim comes from God's own word in Genesis 2....God should know cause He was there. and infinitely so.....................

 

Great, so we get to proove it by....*sighs* Oi vey...not going there...

 

 

on May 21, 2009

God says so and the evidence to back up that claim comes from God's own word in Genesis 2

It says there that a man must cling to his wife because of the example set by Adam and Eve. But no marriage ceremony is mentioned.

on May 21, 2009

lulapilgrim

God says so and the evidence to back up that claim comes from God's own word in Genesis 2....God should know cause He was there. and infinitely so.....................

 

Really? I asked him and he said it isn't the case... or is the bible the word of god? can you explain why I went to a bible store and it had dozens of different versions and translations that say different things?  i read the old testement in hebrew and it didn't say what you said about marriage.

on May 22, 2009

Really? I asked him and he said it isn't the case... or is the bible the word of god? can you explain why I went to a bible store and it had dozens of different versions and translations that say different things?  i read the old testement in hebrew and it didn't say what you said about marriage.

Same thing happened to me.

You would assume that an all-powerful god would at least have some say over the distribution of his published works.

Well, from a Jewish point of view He does: We have the Tanakh (and the Talmud). And He probably gave other books to other peoples. That explainns why there are so any different versions. But none of them are really relevant for me.

I think Lula is confusing Church Law with the Word of G-d again. (Some) Christians seem to have a thing with confusing people with gods.

 

on May 22, 2009

The state of marriage or civil unions did not matter to the church or the state until money could be made from it.  First the church used it to receive money to perform the rite and then once governments decided that families were a good way to tax people the government got involved because it was important to how much tax was charged.

Today it is important for the same two reason but because inheritance and access is granted based on marriage it has become a problem for gays.  They have no rights to decide anything for their partner.  I agree that is a problem but I don't support the gay view so I think they should keep marriage between a man and a woman.  Once we allow a group redefine marriage other groups will follow.  It is not good for the whole society to allow these other groups to take over for the 90% that is not in one of these groups.

Otherwise people are going to want to marry their dogs or sisters or who know what else.  I know that maybe extreem but once the wall is broken it is hard to reconstruct.

on May 22, 2009

Otherwise people are going to want to marry their dogs or sisters or who know what else.  I know that maybe extreem but once the wall is broken it is hard to reconstruct.

We should have never freed the black slaves either. Clearly such actions inevitably lead to freedom for dogs (and sisters) as well. It's a slippery slope.

 

on May 22, 2009

We should have never freed the black slaves either. Clearly such actions inevitably lead to freedom for dogs (and sisters) as well. It's a slippery slope.

 

Sarcasm? I hope so...

on May 22, 2009

Tim237
Otherwise people are going to want to marry their dogs or sisters or who know what else.  I know that maybe extreem but once the wall is broken it is hard to reconstruct.

In case you didn't know, dogs and little sisters can't give consent. Sisters old enough to give consent? Icky, unless its two sisters (to each other, not me) AND me; but none of my business as long as I don't have to foot the bill for their deformed children with my taxes.

on May 22, 2009

n case you didn't know, dogs and little sisters can give consent. Sisters old enough to give consent? Icky, unless its two sisters (to each other, not me) AND me; but none of my business as long as I don't have to foot the bill for their deformed children with my taxes.

 

Can't give consent you mean, right? Children and animals cannot give legal consent.

 

on May 22, 2009

Double Post

on May 22, 2009

AldericJourdain

n case you didn't know, dogs and little sisters can give consent. Sisters old enough to give consent? Icky, unless its two sisters (to each other, not me) AND me; but none of my business as long as I don't have to foot the bill for their deformed children with my taxes.
 

Can't give consent you mean, right? Children and animals cannot give legal consent.

 

 

OOPS! Yeah, thanks, fixing it now.

on May 22, 2009

OOPS! Yeah, thanks, fixing it now.

 

No problem. I am a bit of a spelling/grammer nazi. LOL.

 

~Alderic

on May 23, 2009

LEAUKI P[OSTS:



(And who says Adam and Eve were married?)



LULA POSTS:

God says so and the evidence to back up that claim comes from God's own word in Genesis 2....God should know cause He was there. and infinitely so.....................


LEAUKI POSTS:

It says there that a man must cling to his wife because of the example set by Adam and Eve. But no marriage ceremony is mentioned.

What...you need an actual marriage ceremony according to whatever is in Leauki's mind?

v. 24, "Wherefore a man shall leave his father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and the two shall be in one flesh."

Note the words used....man shall cleave to his "wife" not woman...but wife...wife is a word indicative of being married.

So, in answer to your question, who says Adam and Eve were married....God Himself says...He was there...He inspired the writer who wrote the Book of Genesis...to use the word "wife".

It was from this moment that we can know for sure that it was God's design (making them male and female) and His plan that a man marry a woman and anything else is crazy. If you think it's not then you are entering into George Orwell land.

 

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