"Driven from every other corner of the earth, Freedom of Thought and The Right of Private Judgement in matters of conscience direct their course to this happy country as their last asylum." Samuel Adams - 1776
aka Civil Unions for all!
Published on May 19, 2009 By Korwyn In Marriage

I see in this whole debate a fundamentally flawed assumption that few seem to be willing to address. This assumption is (I believe) actually the core problem and there is a simple solution – which means that it will probably never get addressed. Granted the solution isn’t without its own flaws, but it is probably better than the morass of laws and lawsuits we are heading into right now.

Flawed assumption: Marriage is a civil function. It isn’t. Marriage is a religious institution.

The whole thing boils down to the mixing of the civil (for want of a better term) “joining of households”, and the religious marriage contract. This context of this is inherited long before the Christian church, and can be traced back to almost every culture’s early religious movements. Look at the cultural surroundings of Druidism, Greek Pantheon, Pharaohic rule, Divine Imperial rule in the ‘Far East’, Semitic  Abramic tradition, Mayan, Aztecan, etc, and you will find that the priest(esses) - or those serving in the religious hierarchy – performed both civil and religious law, and it wasn’t until some of the Grecian and Roman legalists and sophists came along that there was this idea of separation between civil law and religious mores and traditions.

Judges and magistrates already perform the civil function of ‘joining of households’. Religious functionaries should not be performing a function of civil or common law.

The solution to the issue is fairly simple (on the surface) and could fix the problem once and for all. When two or more consenting legal adults want to join their households into a single entity they receive a Household Tax ID IF THEY SO CHOOSE. If they don’t choose, they remain (for taxation and civil law) two separate individuals. Religious marriage doesn’t enter into it at all. If two or five consenting legal  adults want to enter into a relationship sanctioned by their church or religion or whatever, that has NO BEARING or relevance on the civil side. 

Tax filings stay pretty much the same, except that instead of a place for two people on the tax forms, there is a ‘household tax id’ number. That links to the civil household registry of who is part of that household, which ties in the individually issued W-2 and various other tax forms. Each party in the household signs off on the tax return, and voila.

Medical benefits and retirements work similarly as they do now, with the exception that if you pay for each adult dependent at the same rate you currently do the ‘spouse’ or ‘domestic partner’ – if they are part of the household (joined under a Household Tax ID). So if Jennifer is the primary or largest wage earner, and has the best medical coverage, and she wants to list Janet, Sandy, and Bill (who are all part of the household),  she pays for herself, plus 3 adults.

This also allows for platonic households, or sibling households (for tax and legal benefits), etc. The key to remember is that in the event of a dissolution of the household, the same issues apply as do under current marriage contracts. Who gets what, who pays what, who gets the kids, who pays child support, who gets the tax deduction, etc.

I know I'll probably get eaten alive by rabid wolverines from the fringes of both sides, but anyone have any additional thoughts, analysis, or comments?

 


Comments (Page 3)
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on May 23, 2009

assuming the sister is of age, there is no reason to make it ILLEGAL.

Sure it is wrong, sure it leads to retarded babies... but what are you gonna do, put them in jail for fucking?

As for the dog... There is absolutely no connection between anything mentioned here and a person marrying a dog. A dog is a non sentient animal. Not a homoesexual, not a close relative, not a non sexually involved human whom you decide to merge your finances with (civil union). I really am at a loss as to where you pulled the dog thing out of.

on May 23, 2009

What...you need an actual marriage ceremony according to whatever is in Leauki's mind?

Some sort of ceremony is customary, yes.

 

As for the dog... There is absolutely no connection between anything mentioned here and a person marrying a dog. A dog is a non sentient animal. Not a homoesexual, not a close relative, not a non sexually involved human whom you decide to merge your finances with (civil union). I really am at a loss as to where you pulled the dog thing out of.

Some people have interesting minds.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

on May 23, 2009

So, in answer to your question, who says Adam and Eve were married....God Himself says...He was there...He inspired the writer who wrote the Book of Genesis...to use the word "wife".

The English word "wife" means "woman". The meaning "woman married to a man" is the younger meaning. The German cognate "weib" refers to a nasty woman (although not necessarily a married one).

But linguistics are not helpful here. In Biblical times "marriage" was a contract between an owner or lord ("ba3al") and a woman. It prevented a woman from having relations with other men. Such a contract would have been unnecessary if there were only one man and one woman around, so why would Adam and Eve have been married?

 

on May 23, 2009

baal, hebrew for owner.

In jewish marriages they still declare you "baal ve-isha" (owner and woman).

 

than again, husband = a person who practices husbandry. Husbandry, the process of taming/domesticating wild creatures (for use in farms). So husband and wife = Domesticator and woman.

 

in old english Man was short fo Human. Wyfman = female human. Werman = Male human. Wer was dropped for males, later to become used in werewolf. (man-wolf), wyfman became woman Woman and wyf also became Wife.

on May 23, 2009

The solution to the issue is fairly simple (on the surface) and could fix the problem once and for all. When two or more consenting legal adults want to join their households into a single entity they receive a Household Tax ID IF THEY SO CHOOSE. If they don’t choose, they remain (for taxation and civil law) two separate individuals. Religious marriage doesn’t enter into it at all. If two or five consenting legal adults want to enter into a relationship sanctioned by their church or religion or whatever, that has NO BEARING or relevance on the civil side.

The ISSUE is that marriage is not just any relationship between human beings. It's a relationship rooted in human nature and thus governed by natural law. One of the main reasons the state bestows benefits on marriage is that it provides stability and the atmosphere to bring up children....which in turn aids in perpetuating and strengthening society.  

unless I'm missing something, you're describing legitimizing communes. Talk about confusion and chaos.

 

 

on May 24, 2009

The ISSUE is that marriage is not just any relationship between human beings. It's a relationship rooted in human nature and thus governed by natural law.

In ancient Judaism human nature was what human beings were able to overcome. Human nature could lead to evil deeds. The word "ra3" describes that kind of "evil". The English translation "evil" doesn't really match it. "Yetzer Ra3" is not an "evil inclination" but an ability to do better.

This seems to be in stark contrast to Christianity's theology were human nature is "governed by natural law" and what is understood as "human nature" is codified in Church law (like marriage).

 

on May 24, 2009

I don't see how can it be human nature considering that in the history of culture, a monogamous setup is the rare exception. The majority of human societies through history are not monogamous.

In fact look at the bible, first it was polygamy with marrying off your relatives... then later on marrying relatives became taboo, but it was still polygamy. Then finally much later it became monogamy.

on May 24, 2009

I don't see how can it be human nature considering that in the history of culture, a monogamous setup is the rare exception.

It isn't. Lula is simply wrong as usual.

Human nature dictates men to impregnate as many women as possible. Some religions are trying to suppress that instinct for the greater good (and the personal good of the man).

 

on Nov 01, 2011

There was a study that determined that about 20 - 25 percent of males are genetically wired for more than one partner. I don't think one was done for females, although I would presume it would be about the same. It was stated that this was for propagation of the species. I see that forcing marriage to be between 2 people is just plain stupid. The Soviet Union had marriage, and it had nothing to do with religion.

Everything in the Christian Bible had to be approved by Emperor Constantine, for Political Purposes: To control the masses through FEAR. Intolerance of, Lies About, and Hatred of All That Is Different.

Here in the USA, you cannot have a religious marriage without obtaining a marriage license from the State you live in FIRST.

Do Unto Others As You Would Have Them Do Unto You.

I wish all of you would live by that which is the only Law.

on Apr 13, 2012

Sarissi
There was a study that determined that about 20 - 25 percent of males are genetically wired for more than one partner

Nono... you remember having read about someone doing a study, and then their interpretation of the results of the study which may very well have been wrong led them to conclude 20 - 25 percent of mailes are genetically wired for more then one partner.

Beware of "studies" being cited... or worse, mentioned but not cited.

Personally I think 100% of men are "wired" for more then one partner but the amazing thing about our brains is how flexible they are and social upbringing can trump that (after all, our brains are also wired to belong to the herd by doing whatever it takes to belong to it)

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